Interview with SAS Graduate | Najma Layali

Why did you choose Russia to study?

Actually, I didn't look at specific countries when I started applying for a bachelor's degree. I just knew that I really wanted to study abroad, somewhere in a new environment. I focused more on programs that interested me, and I came across SAS. I really liked this new style and unique institution located in a city in the middle of Russia. For me, it wasn't so much about the country, but more about the program. This is why I chose Russia.

Why did you choose SAS?

I chose SAS because it offers students the opportunity to spend the first two years learning something general, rather than focusing on a specific major. I think many high school students are unsure about what they want to do and have various interests. I didn't know whether I wanted to do this or that, so it was a great opportunity to figure out what I wanted to do. From my understanding, this kind of “2 plus 2” program didn't exist in Russia or even in my home country, Indonesia, so I thought it was amazing, and super interesting.

What were your favorite courses and which SAS professors can you highlight?

My favorite courses were related to experiments. Maybe it’s my fate or destiny to keep doing experiments because I came to SAS, an experimental institution.

In my second year, I took a course called “Experimental Pedagogics” with a professor from the Netherlands, Ginie Servant-Miklos. Only five bachelor students were admitted to this course. We learned different teaching methods used by various educational institutions. And it was super fun. We created our own experiment, which helped us create our own course, which we also did with SAS Excellence Track students. This was my first kind of introduction to experiments for myself, like application of it.

"Experimental Economics," taught by Alexander Ustvitsky, was the course that helped me significantly with my diploma. It was the first time I realized that I love economics. I really enjoy it, and it’s not a burden. It helped me grow my love for economics and led me to my thesis, where I conducted an experiment.

When we discussed economics with Siyaves Azeri, he approached it from a more philosophical perspective. I feel like I get something less math, less technical, but more theory. These two branches sometimes disagree with each other. It’s really hard for you to bring these kinds of economics, like people from Marx, to people who do math. It's fascinating to hear these differing viewpoints.

What was the most unexpected course at SAS you had?

I feel like SAS is the trademark for untraditional courses. We have so many of them. One that comes to mind is my first-year seminars with Peter Jones and Marko Turk, where we studied humor. We shared memes with each other and did research on it. This was something I never expected to do at university. If I told my parents about it, they would ask what I was actually learning.

It was at the beginning of my SAS journey. It was my first year, my first elective with such amazing professors. It helped me understand a part of studying at SAS which is the importance of analysis and not just having shallow arguments, but rather deep analysis and research to form solid arguments.

What courses have you developed on your own in Excellence Track?

In the Excellence Track, I chose educators track, along with two of my friends, Julia and Nastya, we created a course called Beyond the Kitchen Table.

It was a hard and challenging experience because we had to start from the very beginning, but the Experimental Pedagogics course helped us a lot. It provided a solid basis for designing the course, and we were fortunate to have amazing SAS professors who were cooperative, nice, and helpful. Despite the challenges, it was a rewarding experience, and we received positive feedback.

What was your BA diploma about?

My diploma wasn’t super related to traditional economics. When people hear about it, they often wonder how it relates to economics. I chose to explore experimental economics, down this field, where we utilize experiments to be able to test out people's decision-making. Specifically, I looked at pro-social behavior and trust. I tried to figure out the transmission of trust from parents to children and whether parents are willing to transmit their trust to their child.

I was super grateful to be helped by my supervisor, Tatyana Zhuravleva, who works at HSE. We now have great cooperation and are continuing our experiment together. We are currently finalizing our work to publish an article. In the future, I would like to continue working on experiments related to pro-social behavior, such as cooperation and other behaviors connected to trust.

How is pro-social behavior connected with economics?

Usually, when we think of economics, we think of money. It's not easy to connect it to behaviors. However, the reasons why we choose to trust bank A instead of bank B or give money to person A but not person B are all connected to our behaviors.

Understanding these behaviors is crucial for analyzing why one bank has more clients than another or why one company outperforms another. These behaviors are the first step before we analyze these other aspects in economics.

Do you prefer to continue your academic life in economics or to design interesting courses?

I think they are not mutually exclusive. I always had the desire to combine economics with something more social. Since I’m interested in both education and economics, I want to find a way to combine these two interests.

If you had a chance to create a new course connected with economics, what would it be about?

What I learned from SAS is the drive to combine different topics. If I were to create a course related to economics, it's wouldn’t be only about economics. For example, I’m also interested in cultural studies and philosophy, so I might combine these fields.

Were you active in extracurricular activities?

I was a curator for the SAS Summer School and the Intensive for schoolers. I also helped with the Critical Juncture conference we had last year.

However, I think my biggest achievement was starting the debate club in my first year, thanks to my high school experience. It was helpful because we also had debates in the Great Books course, so people joined, and I was able to assist them.

What is it like to be an international student in Russia?

I was pretty lucky because I chose SAS, where everyone speaks English. It was very comfortable for me to come here. I don't think all international students can say the same because I know that a lot of them struggle to study here in Russia and to just go about their everyday life because of the culture or the language.

I’m open to embracing the culture here. I hang out with my Russian friends all the time and picked up Russian from listening to people daily. It was comfortable for me also because there are international professors, so I didn’t feel alone.

Do you recommend other international students to come to SAS?

For sure. Of course, studying SAS is super challenging, and you have to be ready for that. It’s not just about going to another country but understanding that SAS is a demanding institution. It's not like a travel trip. You have to be prepared for the academic rigor, but it’s also very rewarding.

What is education for you?

Education for me is the process of learning different things. University is about figuring out and learning something new.

While it’s important to focus as you progress, education is a journey of trying new things and continuously learning. Life and knowledge are always evolving, and you must be ready to adapt, use, and integrate new information with what you already know.

What is SAS for you?

For me SAS is something super unique. My friends and I often discuss what university and education mean to us, why do we go there? We agree that education is a place where you can momentarily escape real life, enjoy studying what you love, and gain knowledge. And I think this is what SAS was to me, a place where real life paused, and I could have fun, be with friends, and delve into my interests.

After graduating, I realized I now need to think about money, my job, and whether to continue my education. Education feels like a comfortable option where I can escape real-life problems and keep studying. For me, SAS was the first place that showed me I could be comfortable, enjoy, and love what I am doing.